{"id":10182,"date":"2024-11-07T10:00:46","date_gmt":"2024-11-07T15:00:46","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/elainefroese.com\/?p=10182"},"modified":"2024-11-06T16:41:50","modified_gmt":"2024-11-06T21:41:50","slug":"how-to-talk-about-fair-family-price-for-land-and-other-farm-assets","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/elainefroese.com\/2024\/11\/07\/how-to-talk-about-fair-family-price-for-land-and-other-farm-assets\/","title":{"rendered":"How to Talk About Fair Family Price for Land and Other Farm Assets."},"content":{"rendered":"<p>[et_pb_section fb_built=&#8221;1&#8243; admin_label=&#8221;section&#8221; _builder_version=&#8221;4.24.2&#8243; collapsed=&#8221;off&#8221; global_colors_info=&#8221;{}&#8221;][et_pb_row admin_label=&#8221;row&#8221; _builder_version=&#8221;4.24.2&#8243; background_size=&#8221;initial&#8221; background_position=&#8221;top_left&#8221; background_repeat=&#8221;repeat&#8221; custom_padding=&#8221;||1px|||&#8221; global_colors_info=&#8221;{}&#8221;][et_pb_column type=&#8221;4_4&#8243; _builder_version=&#8221;4.16&#8243; custom_padding=&#8221;|||&#8221; global_colors_info=&#8221;{}&#8221; custom_padding__hover=&#8221;|||&#8221;][et_pb_text admin_label=&#8221;Text&#8221; _builder_version=&#8221;4.27.0&#8243; background_size=&#8221;initial&#8221; background_position=&#8221;top_left&#8221; background_repeat=&#8221;repeat&#8221; global_colors_info=&#8221;{}&#8221;]<\/p>\n<p><iframe loading=\"lazy\" title=\"YouTube video player\" src=\"https:\/\/www.youtube.com\/embed\/fG5xpdpObnM?si=gTq3Uf8BSWNPGTo4\" width=\"560\" height=\"315\" frameborder=\"0\" allowfullscreen=\"allowfullscreen\"><\/iframe><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Fair Family Price vs Fair Market Value Price or FFP vs FMV is often a tense conversation between the founders needing to sell assets for their personal income stream and the buyer, often the cash-strapped successor on the farm. To offer readers some wisdom on this conversation I asked our coaching teammate <a href=\"https:\/\/elainefroese.com\/coaching\/coaching-team\/\">Glenn Dogterom, CPA<\/a> to offer his experience and insights. <\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Here\u2019s some food for thought from Glenn and my coaching experience:<\/span><\/p>\n<ol>\n<li><b>Start with determining the Fair Market Value by using a certified Appraiser<\/b><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">. If you want to find a local appraiser you can ask your lender for referrals, and you can google \u201cagricultural appraiser\u201d.\u00a0 One of our membership site members gathered 2 appraisals for her farm so she was confident she had a good number to start the conversation of transition with her successor.\u00a0<\/span><\/li>\n<li><b>What is the nature of the farming operation and its size<\/b><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">?\u00a0 Is it a large highly profitable enterprise or a smaller family operation with marginal profitability?\u00a0 This is a viability question and relates to our coaching queries about how many families the farm\u2019s cash flow or income stream can support.<\/span><\/li>\n<li><b>What is the nature of the assets being purchased \u2013 is it actual farmland, equipment and buildings (infrastructure) or is it shares in a farming company?<\/b><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> This is where a current asset list is helpful. Some folks are visual leaners and to make good decisions they want to see data and facts. How much of the actual farmland is for crop or pasture? What kind of market value does the equipment have? Do the buildings need a lot of upgrading? How many shares in the farming company are available for purchase? By when? Are the shares growth shares for the next generation? Are the founders wanting preferred shares for future income? Do non-farming siblings have access to farm shares?\u00a0<\/span><\/li>\n<li><b>The successor needs to prepare a business plan<\/b><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> that can be presented to the finance company as part of their application in determining how much the finance company is willing to provide towards the purchase. There is always going to be a collateral requirement which could be in the range of 20 to 25% of the FMV.\u00a0 This may dictate just how much it is practical to expect as a family discount. As a young farmer what kind of collateral are you bringing to the table?<br \/><\/span><\/li>\n<\/ol>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Often discounts have a very wide range based on family dynamics, however it is not uncommon for the discount to be in the range of 15%, which can lead to a shortfall of 5 to 10% of the amount that may be available from financing. There are a number of ways that shortfall might be addressed depending on the specific circumstances. For example, It may take the form of a promissory note to make up the difference.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Due to the extremely high price of farmland there is often a gifting component to enable a successor to take the operation on.\u00a0\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">The other issue is what protections are there for the seller (Founders) in the event of an early sale by the successor.\u00a0 One of several options may take the form of a graduated retention by the successor where they receive no advantage if they sell within one year, increasing as the agreement reaches maturity in 10 to 20 years (as determined by the parties). Lawyer Mona Brown in Manitoba has used the term \u201cpoison pill\u201d to describe legal agreements which prevent the successor from farming for just a few years and then selling out. Brown uses a pro-rated agreement that protects the other non-farm heirs from having a sibling who \u201ccashes out \u201cthe farm in 5 years.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Remember that it likely took the parents 40 plus years to achieve what they have built up and it is not unreasonable for the successor to be looking at a long term for the purchase. (Keep the expectations realistic).\u00a0\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Many folks on our weekly group coaching calls appreciate Glenn\u2019s\u00a0 years of wisdom from all the farm scenarios he as seen in over 30 years of advising farm families. Glenn is going to be missed when he retires from our coaching team in January, so we have welcomed Alyssa Brown, CPA from Olds Alberta who will continue to take on coaching queries related to farm accounting and transition in our breakout rooms on zoom.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">If you would like to be part of our group coaching 3 times a month, go to <\/span><a href=\"http:\/\/www.elainefroese.com\/membership\"><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">www.elainefroese.com\/membership<\/span><\/a> <b>today<\/b><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\"> to sign up. Learn from our coaches and each other as farmers in transition. Your whole family is welcome to be part of the learning journey.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Visit Country Guide\u2019s digital archives for the November 2023 edition called <a href=\"https:\/\/www.country-guide.ca\/?s=This+new+land\">\u201cThis New Land, the Challenge of High Prices \u201c\u00a0\u00a0<\/a><\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">See the relationship manager at your local FCC, bank or credit union to share your current net worth statement, find appraiser referrals, and build your business plan for your vision of the farm. Advisors want to see your farm family succeed but they cannot \u201cdo the pushups for you\u201d as Stu McLaren, my mentor for our membership site has said.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Doing the work of having emotionally laden conversations about buying land and equipment can be hard, but you can do hard things with facilitation using experience coaches who know how to keep the conversations safe and respectful, to create solutions that are win\/win for each generation.\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">As Glenn mentioned above, family dynamics plays a role in the discounted prices agreed to. Make sure you keep financial transparency with both your farm heirs and your non-farm heirs. When folks understand <\/span><b>why c<\/b><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">ertain decisions are made, they are likely more able to come to peace about the outcomes.\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Your discussions about fair family price and expectations about not using fair market value will set the tone of relationships for harmony in your family and business. You get to choose to be cowardly and not do the work of appraisal, assets lists, and debt servicing expectations or you get to embrace the tools mentioned and have peaceful sleep at night.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Elaine Froese and Glenn Dogterom are part of Farm Family Coach Inc. A farm transition coaching team designed to empower farm families across North America building harmony through understanding . Reach out for a <a href=\"http:\/\/www.elainefroese.com\/contact\">free discovery call<\/a><\/span><span style=\"font-weight: 400;\">\u00a0and listen to <a href=\"http:\/\/www.farmfamilyharmonypodcast.com.\">Elaine\u2019s podcast.<\/a><\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: #662d91;\">Did you enjoy <strong>How to Talk About Fair Family Price for Land and Other Farm Assets?<\/strong><\/span><span style=\"color: #662d91;\">\u00a0You might want to check these articles out too:<\/span><\/p>\n<p><a class=\"wp-block-latest-posts__post-title\" href=\"https:\/\/elainefroese.com\/2024\/10\/24\/building-effective-decision-making-systems\/\">Building Effective Decision Making Systems<\/a><br \/><a class=\"wp-block-latest-posts__post-title\" href=\"https:\/\/elainefroese.com\/2024\/10\/10\/not-talking-about-your-emotions-will-make-you-a-bad-decision-maker\/\">Not Talking About Your Emotions Will Make You a Bad Decision Maker<\/a><br \/><a class=\"wp-block-latest-posts__post-title\" href=\"https:\/\/elainefroese.com\/2024\/09\/26\/how-to-clean-up-your-conflict-filter-and-shift-your-avoidance-mindset\/\">How to Clean Up Your Conflict Filter and Shift Your Avoidance Mindset<\/a><\/p>\n<p>[\/et_pb_text][\/et_pb_column][\/et_pb_row][\/et_pb_section][et_pb_section fb_built=&#8221;1&#8243; admin_label=&#8221;Section&#8221; _builder_version=&#8221;4.24.2&#8243; _module_preset=&#8221;default&#8221; global_colors_info=&#8221;{}&#8221;][et_pb_row admin_label=&#8221;Row&#8221; _builder_version=&#8221;4.24.2&#8243; _module_preset=&#8221;default&#8221; global_colors_info=&#8221;{}&#8221;][et_pb_column type=&#8221;4_4&#8243; _builder_version=&#8221;4.17.6&#8243; _module_preset=&#8221;default&#8221; global_colors_info=&#8221;{}&#8221;][et_pb_image src=&#8221;https:\/\/elainefroese.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2024\/07\/Kick-start-Succession-Conversations.jpg&#8221; title_text=&#8221;Kick-start Succession Conversations&#8221; url=&#8221;https:\/\/elainefroese.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2022\/12\/ElaineFroese_Kick-Start_Succession_Conversations_Final.pdf&#8221; url_new_window=&#8221;on&#8221; admin_label=&#8221;Image&#8221; _builder_version=&#8221;4.27.0&#8243; _module_preset=&#8221;default&#8221; global_colors_info=&#8221;{}&#8221;][\/et_pb_image][\/et_pb_column][\/et_pb_row][\/et_pb_section]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>In this weeks blog, with the help of coaching teammate, Glenn Dogterom, CPA, we explore practical steps to bridge the gap between Fair Family Price (FFP) and Fair Market Value (FMV), better understanding the nature of farming operations, and establishing a smoother transition process with fairer and more transparent negotiations.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":2,"featured_media":10198,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"_et_pb_use_builder":"on","_et_pb_old_content":"<iframe title=\"YouTube video player\" src=\"https:\/\/www.youtube.com\/embed\/o4K6bItAbCY\" width=\"560\" height=\"315\" frameborder=\"0\" allowfullscreen=\"allowfullscreen\"><\/iframe>\r\n\r\nHarvest is in full swing on our farm, and I am not there\u2026for a few days. Where is it written you cannot leave the farm during harvest? (Almost on every page of the unpublished book \u201cThe Culture of Agriculture.\u201d)\r\n\r\nIf you are one of the 2800 folks who have stumbled upon \u201cFinding Fairness in Farm Transition\u201d on my YouTube channel at Farm Family Coach, you already know I am on a mission to change mindsets in agriculture. Fairness is helping everyone in the family be successful.\r\n<p class=\"p1\">Enter Scott Armstrong and his new workbook: <i>Mind Switch Retirement Planner<\/i>.<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\r\n<img class=\"aligncenter wp-image-6952 size-large\" src=\"https:\/\/elainefroese.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2022\/10\/Untitled-design-1024x512.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"1024\" height=\"512\" \/>\r\n<p class=\"p1\">Armstrong is a speaker friend who shared his insights at a national financial planner September convention in Niagara Falls, the place I also journeyed to at the start of our September harvest. He uses the word \u201cretirement\u201d, for ag folks I prefer to use the term reinvention:<\/p>\r\n<p class=\"p1\"><strong>Here are some things to consider as you age on your farm or ranch:<\/strong><\/p>\r\n\r\n<ol class=\"ol1\">\r\n \t<li class=\"li1\"><b>What are the current roles you want to continue?<\/b> Which ones would you like to let go of? My farmer is coughing more after cleaning bins, and I am encouraging him to quit that task at age 65, which is now.<\/li>\r\n \t<li class=\"li1\"><b>Are you still passionate about farming?<\/b> Or just parts of it? Simon Sinek says, \u201cfulfillment comes when we live our lives on purpose\u201d. What is it you are doing on your farm where you lose all track of time? This summer I think my farmer lost track of mowing fields and ditches and waiting for the grain to ripen. I love to play with my grandkids and enjoy their giggles, stories, and curiosity. Play me with them is a sweet spot and I am intentional in making time for them. I am still passionate about helping farm families make intentional choices for a better quality of life and harmony through understanding.<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0<\/span><\/li>\r\n \t<li class=\"li1\"><b>Do your passion and purpose align with your spouse\u2019s vision<\/b>? This is where it gets messy. You want to leave the farm life roles and responsibilities, but your partner does not. Not for a long time! Where is it written you cannot pursue some things in different time zones or days apart from your spouse?<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0 <\/span>Independence is one of my core values, yet my husband respects what I need to fill my well, and I am happy when I return to the farm from my off-farm contracts and contacts. Love and respect for the other can go both ways.<\/li>\r\n \t<li class=\"li1\"><b>Adventure is big<\/b> on Scott Armstrong\u2019s workbook list. Farmers spend a lot of money on crop protection and other inputs. Many use the points from farm credit cards to fund short-term winter adventures. One of my clients is on a motorbike in the Maritimes as I write this. (Dairy farmer). Another farmer spends time in Mexico helping the poor build houses in the winter, and he wants to do more of this. Our adventures to visit friends in New Zealand, or travel with friends to Hawaii have been great times of renewal. Perhaps there is an ag tour you have been putting off. The GREAT PAUSE showed us how isolation and lack of adventure can really cramp our style, but we now have options. The most recent adventure for folks in our circle has been electric bikes. They are great for checking fields, riding down the Turtle Mountains to Boissevain, and going for a quick spin before supper. What is the adventure you have been putting off?<\/li>\r\n \t<li class=\"li1\"><b>Vitality is an energy we all want more of.<\/b> Armstrong is convinced we are only using 50% of our body\u2019s capacity. Our wonderful physician Dr. Nell shook his finger at us 5 years ago saying \u201cLook you two it\u2019s time you started having some fun. At 75 it all starts to fall apart!\u201d<span class=\"Apple-converted-space\">\u00a0 <\/span>This year I\u2019ve shed some weight via the app \u201cNOOM\u201d and am working on a better morning fitness routine. My friend, a cattle producer at age 68 does lots of stretching and 40 minutes on her elliptical every morning. She makes time for lots of hiking adventures and ensures her body is in great form. Armstrong has a great list of sleep hacks to have more renewal time.\r\nYour body is not a machine. Save money now by paying better attention to your health and making small habit changes to be healthier. Be kind to your brain and get off your devices long before bed. This will not kill you, and your marriage may be better off for the pillow talk without blue lights flashing from your cell phone or iPad, or TV.<\/li>\r\n \t<li class=\"li1\"><b>Finances:<\/b> The number one encouragement I have is to find a good financial planner who can guide you with your income streams and personal wealth as your farm assets keep growing. CAFA which is the Canadian Association of Farm Advisors has great advisors in their directory who understand the culture of agriculture and the challenges of debt servicing and the need for personal wealth options. See <span style=\"color: #44b6ac;\"><a style=\"color: #44b6ac;\" href=\"http:\/\/www.cafanet.ca\"><span class=\"s1\">www.cafanet.ca<\/span><\/a>.<\/span><\/li>\r\n \t<li><strong>Living Legacy:<\/strong> What do you want people to say about you BEFORE you die?\r\nI hope you have a wonderful 80th birthday party where folks can tell you in their own words and stories about how your life really was a blessing to them. Do you want to be able to set your grandkids up for financial success? Can you help fund their RESP for trades or university training? Could you help fund the local arts and culture or sports foundation of your small town? Would you be able to secretly give a \u201cleg up\u201d to a struggling single parent? Having the time to walk alongside newcomers to your community and financial support can be a huge blessing to making your town a great place to age gracefully. We live close to one of Manitoba\u2019s most beautiful small towns. The new bakeshop owner is now making sourdough bread with wheat head designs, plus great peanut butter marshmallow slices. This news may not excite you, but it is becoming a destination attraction. Sometimes it is the \u2018little things in life\u201d that make a day sweeter.<\/li>\r\n \t<li class=\"li1\"><b>Social times<\/b>. Armstrong surprised me with his challenge to question who your friends are and why. Post-Covid relationships look different, and you may be navigating the loss of long-time or childhood friends. Intentionally make a list of the folks who align with your purpose and plans for growth. I\u2019ll still a big fan of calling my far-away friends to keep relationships growing, yet I also know having tea in person is refreshing. I suspect the guys reading this are longing for more friendships beyond the farm gate. What are you DOING about it?<\/li>\r\n<\/ol>\r\n<p class=\"p1\">Find out more about Scott Armstrong\u2019s fun, practical workbook at <span style=\"color: #44b6ac;\"><a style=\"color: #44b6ac;\" href=\"http:\/\/www.mindswitch.ca\"><span class=\"s1\">www.mindswitch.ca<\/span><\/a><\/span>, and reach out to the Mind Switch community on <span style=\"color: #44b6ac;\"><a style=\"color: #44b6ac;\" href=\"https:\/\/www.facebook.com\/profile.php?id=100063687142266\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">Facebook<\/a>.<\/span> Tell him you are working on changing the mindsets in agriculture, one family at a time.<\/p>\r\n<a href=\"https:\/\/elainefroese.com\/insights\/free-stuff\/roles-storyboard\/\"><strong><span style=\"color: #44b6ac;\">Grab your copy of the Roles Storyboard<\/span><\/strong><\/a> to <span class=\"RFZYhc\">help you understand your 6 key roles - personal, couple, family, work (farm and off farm), friends, community.<\/span>\r\n\r\n***\r\n<p class=\"p1\">Elaine Froese is happy to be writing at 30,000 feet again. Invite her to speak at your next ag event. She has 30-plus years of practical insights for farmers to have the life they\u2019ve always wanted. One day at a time.\u00a0Visit <a href=\"http:\/\/www.elainefroese.com\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\"><span style=\"color: #44b6ac;\">here <\/span><\/a>or Instagram <span style=\"color: #44b6ac;\"><a style=\"color: #44b6ac;\" href=\"https:\/\/www.instagram.com\/farmfamilycoach\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">@farmfamilycoach<\/a><\/span> and hit the Linktree bio. Send cards to Box 957, Boissevain MB R0K 0E0.<\/p>\r\n<strong>Follow Elaine on Social for More Helpful Farm Family Advice!<\/strong>\r\n\r\n<span style=\"color: #44b6ac;\"><a style=\"color: #44b6ac;\" href=\"https:\/\/www.facebook.com\/farmfamilycoach\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">Facebook<\/a><\/span>\r\n<span style=\"color: #44b6ac;\"><a style=\"color: #44b6ac;\" href=\"https:\/\/www.instagram.com\/farmfamilycoach\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">Instagram<\/a><\/span>\r\n<span style=\"color: #44b6ac;\"><a style=\"color: #44b6ac;\" href=\"https:\/\/www.linkedin.com\/in\/farmfamilycoach\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">LinkedIn<\/a><\/span>\r\n<span style=\"color: #44b6ac;\"><a style=\"color: #44b6ac;\" href=\"https:\/\/twitter.com\/elainefroese\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">Twitter<\/a><\/span>\r\n<span style=\"color: #44b6ac;\"><a style=\"color: #44b6ac;\" href=\"https:\/\/www.youtube.com\/c\/farmfamilycoach\/videos\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">YouTube<\/a><\/span>\r\n<span style=\"color: #44b6ac;\"><a style=\"color: #44b6ac;\" href=\"https:\/\/www.tiktok.com\/@farmfamilycoach\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">TikTok<\/a><\/span>\r\n\r\nDid you enjoy<em><strong> How to re-invent your farm life as you age with Mind-Switch? <\/strong><\/em>You might want to check these articles out too:\r\n\r\n<span style=\"color: #44b6ac;\"><a style=\"color: #44b6ac;\" href=\"https:\/\/elainefroese.com\/2022\/08\/25\/your-farms-emotional-tank-needs-checking\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">Your Farm\u2019s Emotional Tank Needs Checking<\/a><\/span>\r\n<span style=\"color: #44b6ac;\"><a style=\"color: #44b6ac;\" href=\"https:\/\/elainefroese.com\/2022\/07\/14\/you-are-not-alone-2\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">You are not alone<\/a><\/span>\r\n<span style=\"color: #44b6ac;\"><a style=\"color: #44b6ac;\" href=\"https:\/\/elainefroese.com\/2022\/06\/30\/how-to-love-a-farmer-2\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">How to Love a Farmer<\/a><\/span>","_et_gb_content_width":"","footnotes":""},"categories":[168],"tags":[297,1124,3,70,169,352,14,113,74,127,259,363,353,35,7,49,441,195,762,76,369,26,367,1832,398],"class_list":["post-10182","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-communication","tag-agriculture","tag-coaching","tag-communication","tag-elaine-froese","tag-families","tag-family-business-meetings","tag-farm-assets","tag-farm-business","tag-farm-families","tag-farm-family","tag-farm-family-coach","tag-farm-family-coaching","tag-farm-family-discussions","tag-farm-folks","tag-farm-legacy","tag-farm-management","tag-farm-relationships","tag-farm-team","tag-farm-transition","tag-farmers","tag-farming-business","tag-farming-family","tag-inspiration","tag-iowa-farming","tag-young-farmers"],"yoast_head":"<!-- This site is optimized with the Yoast SEO plugin v26.9 - https:\/\/yoast.com\/product\/yoast-seo-wordpress\/ -->\n<title>How to Talk About Fair Family Price for Land and Other Farm Assets. - Elaine Froese | Canada\u2019s Farm Whisperer | Your go-to expert for farm families who want better communication and conflict resolution to secure a successful farm transition<\/title>\n<meta name=\"description\" content=\"How to Talk About Fair Family Price for Land and Other Farm Assets. 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